snowden has? the nsa right now ostensibly, should give us that number. how many thousands of people? because what you're dealing with here is something fundamental, which is the moral authority of the united states, and right now we're probably going to have a lot of countries coming to us, saying all right, i want to know exactly what's being done not just to my populations, because a lot of countries know we have their populations under surveillance, but especially their leaders who are feeling a little bit apique now. in 2002, when we ostensibly start wiretapping merkel, that's a time when we were having a battle over curveball. remember him? and the iraqi defector who was a fabricator and weapons of mass destruction? many people in the german government were under surveillance, signal intelligence in that period. again, it goes to the heart of what the united states says it does versus what people later find out it actually is doing. not good. >> ron suskind, senior fellow at harvard, center f